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  • Positive Polarity Podcast

The Art & Science of Delivering a Story That SELLS!

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Katrina's career in the media has taken this graduate of the University of Southern California across the country working for NBC, ABC, and FOX affiliates. She’s been a helicopter reporter in Portland, Oregon to a talk show host and investigative reporter in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Katrina is now sharing all she knows about how to attract and handle the media.


Hey Dave, Melinda here. Positive polarity podcast. I hope things are going awesome for you. I'm going to start with an awesome question for you. And the question is, do you want people to follow you? And so, I want to unpack that today with Katrina Cravey. How are you today?

I am well, Dave, very well. Hello? All your viewers and listeners.

Yes, absolutely. Co-Founder of charisma Q that right there just has a whole boatload of questions. So why don't you fill us in on the charisma Q and what's going on over there?

We help coaches evaluate and create charismatic sellers. We're really big on wanting to make sure that people dive into their best personality and bring that on whether or not you're walking through the front door of a client or you're trying to connect through the camera now, which is what we all are doing in this new virtual world, which for some people it's never going to end.

Yeah. So best personality. So, I'm already like, Oh, so do I have to be on my best behavior? Or what's the best person I don't want you to behave. Well, tell me, then what is the best personality is?

I really think that people in this world try to be so professional. They forget to be personable, and you really have to create relationships with people. And to do that, we have at Christmas, we have six components, our Q six, and one of them is authenticity. You have to be true to who you are because people can see right through somebody fake, right? Empathy. You have to really care about the people you're talking to and not just trying to sell them on your thing, like strategic questioning, really knowing a lot about the clients so that you hear them, you truly hear them. And then it's about that confidence. How do you come through in the moments that really matter with as much strength as you can at that time? So that's what we call art. Now, the science that's first impressions. How do you show up? Whether that's an in-person and virtual world, how are you coming to the party? And then it is, of course, message alignment. If you're a salesperson for a company, do you know their message? Can you sell that message, and delivery is the next in science, and that's your voice? You're pacing. Are you using too many filler words? So, you're doing the like professional. So those are our Q six components.

Holy cow. Well, that's, that's that wraps it up for today. Thanks, everybody, for hanging out with us. Thank you for sharing that because I mean, I tend to try and really get into the mind of the person listening. And I think about the entrepreneur that's listening. That's like, Holy cow, you just unpack there. Katrina's awesome. But she's running around with my hair on fire. I'm always late. I'm always be shoveled I'm like never properly prepared. How in the world do I adding Q six? Am I adding six more things? A lot of times, that can be really like a burden. So, help us understand some practicality in that to just kind of unpack that with us.

Okay. So, I understand, being an entrepreneur myself, how we are just trying to put out so many fires all day long. It's really difficult. But do you want that to be your personal brand? When you said disheveled, I'm too busy. Sometimes, you have to fake it till you make it, and you have to look like you are organized. You will come through for your clients, right? That trust. Are you going to be building a lot of trust with clients? If they feel, Oh, this poor person, they can't keep it together.

Sympathy sale. Maybe we can get some of those, right?

Yes, exactly, exactly. Feed my family. It's hard. It's very, so I think you have to really take some time to put it together. What is your PR? I know you probably have a brand for your company, but then as the leader of your company, what is your personal brand? And your personal brand is the CEO of even a one-person at 10-person company that trickles down into the culture of your company really does. So, you have to think, okay, what are my values? What are my personal values? That's the start of building that personal brand and the type of culture you want for your company. Does that make sense?

Yeah, totally. I just love those because we talk a lot about authenticity and a lot about empathy, not so much about confidence because sometimes go that it's hard to take confidence and ego and separate those. So, I totally want to get into that with you as well. And I love how you then looked at it from a mechanical perspective too. So, for those who don't know Katrina, she's this scary and award-winning TV veteran. Tell me just a little bit about that career.

So, I've got more than years of broadcast journalism experience. I was an Emmy award-winning investigative reporter. I was an anchor, and I was a talk show host. And really, my career was terrific, but I was sitting across from people interviewing them and realizing they haven't practiced or prepared a great story. That's going to sell me on it. And they haven't come with enough energy and passion about what they're doing to get me to want to follow them or get to that call to action. What is the next step that you want me to take? So, I was interviewing all these people, thinking somebody needs to help them with this. And I launched my own company four years ago and became an executive coach, but it was about seven months ago that we spit switched it from executive coaching to realizing that the sales teams really needed this type of training to bring their best selves to any platform that they're going into.

Awesome. That's so cool. So, we love unpacking and talking about the connection between personal growth and business growth. I've been in my career for 20 years like you were 15 years or 30 years, and I see kind of above and beyond. And I think there might be something else out there for me, entrepreneur business owner you were in corporate America, right? I would consider in that corporate America world, when did it start to like, not you or when did you start to think like, wow, maybe there's something else that I could do. Do you remember that transition?

I do Dave, so funny that you said not you. Cause that's, that's what you get right into the head. Cause that's what was happening to me. So I kept having this little idea of what I could do to help people and especially entrepreneurs get more media coverage because I was sent so many emails and so many story pitches. I was like, wow, they don't know how to pitch their idea. Like they don't know what we really need. And it kept gnawing at me. Like there's a market for this. There's a market for what I know. And I'm sure that whoever's listening to this, there's a market for what to its amount. How do you package it and put it together? And I kept thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to give up my big salary, my big career and start this idea.

I'm like crazy. And so that little nine ideas just kept gnawing at me. And I honestly said, Lord, Lord, do not take this idea away from me. Cause I really liked my good cushy job. Right? Like, I don't want to think about this anymore, but it just kept knocking at the door, and it wouldn't go away. And I finally was like, all right, this must be, it's heavy on my heart. I've got to do this. I have to have the courage and the faith to just take that leap of faith and do it. So, I would encourage anybody. I didn't do it just like turned in my resume or my resign and just left I years to a go and teach some classes. See if what I was offering resonated with people, I surveyed them to say, would you pay for this? Like, will I be able to feed my family if I leave my job? So, I did a lot of market research. I had written the book way in advance of me ever leaving Fox six. So, I just got myself prepared when I made the launch, and I was ready. I had the branding; I had a personal brand. I had the website already done. I wanted to like, and if I was going to turn off the light on one thing, I wanted to turn on the light immediately with something else. Wow. And I would encourage people to do that.

Yeah. That's awesome. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. I think there's like this thought process, and we've talked about this a lot. Some people, they kind of drift they take a long time like you did, and they make sure everything is in a role as best that they can. And there's no right or wrong to either one of these here's, other people, that they like quit on Friday. I was the exact opposite of you. So, I sold my portion of my company to my partner on a Tuesday afternoon at two o'clock. I remember we were at a Perkins restaurant, and we did the deal, and I'm sitting there at the end of, at two, whatever three o'clock probably by the time it was all done. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? I don't have a job. And it was just, and it was completely different. And I'm not saying one's right or wrong. It's just that I think a lot of people have the thought that I had, like, you'd have to stop and then start, the overlap really is, is foreign to a lot of people.

So let me ask you a question that with you and your partner, were you already an entrepreneur? So, you probably have the confidence in your ability to do it again.

I did, but I didn't know what it was. That's the interesting thing is I knew that I wanted to coach people. I knew that I wanted to come alongside people Katrina and help them, but I didn't know what that looked like. And people, this is one tip that I think for anybody listening if you're getting, you can get too many people telling you what to do, and if you're not solid in yourself and in your message, I think that's where people run into trouble. I mean, I watch shark tank on occasionally, and man, they did some people get their blood chewed by because they didn't figure something out. And I think that scares a lot of people from jumping into the business. I didn't have it all figured out. Maybe you had it all figured out, but I think there's a, there's a figuring out point, right? There's a transition. So, do you remember that sign for you?

So, when I launched me, even though you can prepare as much as you want to prepare, that may not be the final message, and you have to be able to pivot when you start seeing large tell you. Yeah, but we need this. Can you do this? And then realizing, okay, there's a market for that more so than the other market, and you just have to be willing to be agile. I, my thing is, I think for you, you knew you had the skills to do it. I did not know I had those skills. Corporate America had always employed me, and I didn't know how to do that. Right. So that's why it probably made me feel a little more comfortable getting them a few more data points before I decided to launch.

Yeah. And I, again, I don't think there's a right or wrong at all to either side. I just know in '91, when I started my last business, we had $0. And then when I sold it in 13, we were about 10 million in annual sales. So, it was one of those things that I knew how to do that. And when I wrote my book growing on purpose, I ran into so many people that grow by mistake. They think about that. Like you're spending time with sales teams, I'm with I'm a part-time sales manager for some clients, and without I'm not any, it's not me, but without a sales manager, without a direction for the sales team, they just go everywhere. But where they're supposed to go.

I've been with clients who are on like, okay, so basically, you're telling me it's the wild West.

Yeah, exactly. They compete with each other at times. What really attracted me to this podcast today, and I really want to understand the charisma piece because I've yet to meet a charisma code. So, congratulations on the Emmy that you won. You now have the distinguished privilege of being our first Caribbean charisma coach on the positive polarity podcast. What is that? I mean, what is, how do you define that for people?

Well, I think it's about bringing their true, authentic self, and their most power is really what it comes down to. And I think that a lot of people need to be given permission to get outside of the naysayer that's in their head and to really draw that out for them. And I think that myself and the coaches that we're bringing on are really great experts and feeling freer to do what they want to do. Right. Like to tell them, this is how you can show up and find authentic things to them that we like. For instance, I had a client this morning, she's from the South, and she said my Southern accent. But it does seem to smooth over problems with agitated clients. And I said, so you are going to use that like nobody's business.

You have to do that. And it's about them going, Oh, okay. So that's okay. Yes, that's okay. And it's also them being vulnerable with a third party. And this as a coach, it's so much different than them telling their manager. Well, I haven't made quota because I'm afraid of this or there's this issue in my head. Like I don't want to make zoom calls. I don't like the way I look on camera right now, and you're talking to a third-party coach. Who's never going to share that information, and we can really dive deep, get those fears out there. Let's move past them. And then let's go forward. Like how do we do that? So that's what I love doing. I love seeing people who have said I've either hated, especially like media interviews, but even on the zoom calls now with clients, I hated doing this, and now I enjoy it. You've made this fun. And I think it becomes more fun when you just permit yourself to be you.

Yeah, absolutely. I know from being so the easiest to write, I mean, that's easy, because you can always delete whatever you want. The second easiest is the video, right? That's getting easier and easier. The third one that gets a little harder as a live zoom call, you get down to radio and TV, and it's like, oh man, this is completely a whole different ball game. And that's where I think people stop. And I think one of the things that your keynote was the secrets to attract the media and unwrapped free publicity. I mean, I love that because we're, as, as novices, we're really afraid of and intimidated by media people like you, not in a bad way, it's just that, oh my gosh, how did they do that all the time?

You don't know what you do. Like you have your knowledge. And I have the 20 years of sitting there in front of a piece of plastic and acting like it's my best friend, which is really kind of weird. But I think that that's what people need to recognize is that we're not scary. The media is not scary. It's about how you fashion your story. And if you're a local business, they need you; local television, local radio, local newspapers rely on local content. And I try to tell clients that if you are not telling your story and telling it well and getting their attention, you are stealing your knowledge and your information or your product from our community. Right. And I never want anybody to think I'm stealing anything, right? Like, so you have to offer that to them.

And that's why I started with that question because whether you're an entrepreneur, a business owner, sales, professional, whatever you are in the business community, ideally you want people to follow you,

Right? I mean, that's what we all want right now, especially right now with COVID. We all want growth in our companies, right? You got to increase growth. And the only way you can do that and increase productivity is to embrace this new virtual world and carry that on with you. I mean, we've had clients that tell us, this is awesome. Now that you've helped us get through this and know how to actually command the zoom room and to do all this. We're getting five meetings compared to what would have taken us that whole time to drive to the client. So, we see this going into the future. Like we were going to keep this as part of our sales process.

That's awesome. Yeah. I have clients I want in brassica, and it used to take a day to fly a data train and a data fly at home. It was like a three-day deal. Now we're doing these zoom calls and six to eight hours, and it's just like so much different. So, but I got to say fully disclosed there. I was like, and this is never going to work a year ago. Now when everything was normal, quote-unquote, people would say you think that you could do a zoom meeting. I'm like, wow, I don't even know what that is. I got a seat in front of somebody if I'm going to coach them to understand to get their vibe and so forth. Well then, I started to have to transition, and I realized how there was a huge opportunity, like what we're doing right here. I mean, in the past, we would have had to end up in a studio somewhere.

I mean, I have friends in the media who are running the TV show through their basements are screaming for their 14-year-old kids to come and help them with the tech. That's crazy to think that way, but you can create real relationships and move business along with if you're just willing to embrace and be agile.

Yeah. That's so cool. So out of those people, there have to be people, and I'm really into the disc personality profile. So, I think about the high D person, the driven person, that's just results-oriented. I don't even want to sit down with Katrina because I got a goal. So, I'm going to stand through your event, right. Because I mean, how do you get those people to be authentic and to be empathetic to, to your point on the Q six, how do you get those people in that spot without, because I guess if you pass it, you kind of miss the whole idea. So how do you, how do you do that?

Well, let's assume you were one of those people. So, you want to make sure that you check a lot of things off your list. You meet a quota, and you do all that. If we can get you to realize that you could almost get more business from the current clients that you have simply with strategic, where you really took a little moment to get that those questions out there that you found out, Oh, you know what? We could sell them this too. Oh, they're having an issue with this. And they didn't even know we had this product or this service if you can finally go, okay, a little empathy, a little strategic questioning will lead to you being, checking it off the list and being that's where you get them.

Okay. So, so your strategic questioning, I want to kind of dig into that. If you don't mind, help me understand that. When I train people in like the lost art of questioning, for instance, we do a questioning workshop. I'm filled with salespeople in the room that they just talk, and they're making statements, and they're not asking the open-ended, really thought-provoking questions. So, from your perspective, the strategic questioning, are there some like easy ones that we could use or some ideas that we can think about to kind of dig into that a little bit,

For sure. And as a reporter, strategic questioning, like I never wanted to be sitting on the set with somebody and ask them a yes or no question when you say, and they go, yes. And then I'm like, okay, and now, yeah, right. And now I've got to do a lot more work because I have five questions you're just answering. Yes or no. Now I've got to fill three minutes or whatever it is. So, it's asking those open-ended questions. And when you say like a concept, so I am a national speakers association speaker. Right. Okay. I have to have this on my monitor so that I shot up. Listen, don't talk. It says, right? Yeah. Listen, don't talk. I just, so I remind myself when I'm talking to a potential client, listen, really listen, like, listen for something that goes, Oh, and take a note of it. Don't blurt it out right then. So that you can circle back and say, okay, I heard a couple of things when you were talking, let's talk about that. Let's unpack this. So, I'm all you and I are like this.

Well, because I think I'm a visual guy and I constantly have this picture of my mind to the iceberg. I see the little chunk above the water, and I see most people living in that spot there, whether you're selling something, whether you're communicating, I want to understand that big chunk that's underneath the water. So that's where I'm trying to dig deeper into questions when I'm talking to people. I mean, my fate favorite three words are so easy, but they're so powerful. It's like, tell me more when somebody starts talking and they're like, I try, I'm getting really good at going. As I said, it's really good stuff. It drops the wall a little bit. And I'm like, well tell me. And for whatever reason, they just seem to love to talk about that. And

They do. I just did a video called to tell me about, Oh, cool. Tell me about is the best three words. So same thing as you it's like that, we'll get the conversation started, and it's not, it doesn't end the conversation right away.

And they don't know the cool part is, I mean, you can look at the mechanics of it, and we're trying as a sales professional, we'll say to get them to open up to, to share their, you know to share their life stories, so to speak or whatever's going on. But it's the exact same thing. When you go to the doctor, the first thing he asks you after you make sure you got your insurance paid up and all that stuff, he's like, what's going on? What are you doing here? Like what hurts, right? Why are you here? Tell me more, whatever his words or her words are. And we don't think twice about it. And so, it's just unique that in sales, we kind of forget that I call a techno puke because we love to just spew out stuff, and it's like,

And do you believe in learning how to trust you and like you to begin with? I mean, that's what charisma is all about is making sure that you attract, engage, and inspire others. So, they need to feel like they like and trust you before you ever get into all the technical stuff. Right. And that creates like just being human. Like if one of our kids like ran through the room right now, you would never go, oh, I'm really sorry. Like, you'd be like, come over here. You want to create that personality and be, and this is a little Jimmy and little Jimmy, you better get outta here. We're telling people to embrace that. That is our new world. If you're working from home, use it, don't be afraid of being who you are. Hide the laundry, don't have the laundry in the shop, or be who you are.

And it gives you a get out of jail free card. I mean, it's one of those situations where you, and you don't want to have it where, okay, Jimmy, come here now. But if used, right, it does show that you're human, and it puts our humanity or human realm or human, you know, spin on our selling on our work. And for so long, that's been separated where you have your business and your personal, and those should never cross right. So, I appreciate the honesty.

Yeah. It advances relationships real fast.

If they're the people that like kids, right. If it's some people, there are still those people, which I'm sure you run into that are still super by the book. I mean, how do you do they, or do they just not show up because they're not really buying it

Super by the book. People I would bet would be those who don't want to turn their video on when they get on a call. Like we all have been part of those big groups where people don't put on their video. We've been telling our clients that we have a checklist for them of what they should send to potential clients about these calls that they're on. Especially if it's a global stakeholder meeting where there are bunches of people. So, you set expectations. And one of those expectations is the video is on. And I just had a client email me that said, I'm so glad you said that. And I've gotten really bold. And I asked a client, Hey, I know you, one of your people in the group don't have their video on, do you mind sharing, turning your video on? And the person said, well, I'm holding a kitten. She's like, well, then definitely turn your video on. And the whole group had a good time seeing this new little kitten, and so you never know now there are some times you may not want them to turn on the camera, but you got to enjoy the whole process.

That's so funny. I mean, we run sales advantage, round tables where there are a sales professional in the room while from non-competing industries, and they're on a call like this. And, but yeah, there are still people that don't want to share their picture.

They will in the future. I mean, it's getting faster and faster. More and more people are sharing it. But I would think it's the old school buttoned-up people that don't feel comfortable with themselves. And I always try it because TV person, I got to be like, it's about them, not about me. But that really helps people to get over that fear of why they are not turning on their camera, setting the example right away. Or asking them to, and then more and more people start putting on their cameras. More managers start asking for cameras. We, we would never show up for a meeting wearing a bag on her head. Right. Like in person. So, you've got to take a shower and drive, like put on some clothes and show off.

I don't even like doing these without shoes on because I'm like, I don't know why it's just kind of weird. Right. I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, yeah, I better put some shoes on for this.

No, it makes, it's how you feel. I mean, part of that whole charisma is how that presence, that executive presence, that sales presence you want to convey and how you layer yourself that first impression gives you that strength.

That's a great transition into that mechanical piece. You said the first impression was like getting more and more important. I seemed to remember like eight seconds used to be the number that your brain is going to say. I either like this person or I don't, and then the next few minutes, your brain is either trying to prove itself why it did like you or why it didn't like you know you said it's down to like five seconds. So, what's your, do you have any tips for us for that impression?

First of all, especially in this virtual world, make sure that the camera is at eye level. I have seen so many people, if I can see like the ceiling fan and your nose hairs, then, then the laptops too low, right? Like not right. I'm big on the lighting. Like we have an, O-ring a really good camera, and an investment of maybe $150 can make you show up in this new world a little better. And then, of course, in person, it is about like, what are you wearing? Do you have a couple of great suits? Who are you? Your audience, first of all, know your audience, know your situation. Like you don't want to wear a tux to breakfast, right? Like that's not going to work. But really think, okay, I'm going to spend a little moment thinking about how I will show up my first impression.

So, I think that's important. We had consultants come in and talk to us, of course, in TVI consultants for years going, and I don't like her hair cut it. She needs to wear this type of cut. she needs this kind of outfit. She needs Briar lipstick and all this kind of stuff. And I finally had to realize I'm a product. I am no different than a can of Coke. Wow. Right. And if you think about all of us, we're no different than a product. We are all in sales. We're all selling all the time. Whether you think you are not, you're selling like I want to get married. I want to stay married to this person. I want my boss to see me. I want to rise in the company. I want to start a new company, and I want clients to be attracted to me. So, if you can really think of yourself, don't get down on yourself, but I'm a product I want to take a really good look at myself, and I want to change it. Or I like this, and I'm going to keep it whatever it is. But you've got to decide, will my audience resonate with this product?

Well, it's so funny. I think back to when I do sales one on one to see if people's non-sales professionals that might want to jump in and you ask people, give me some words that you think of when you think of salespeople, and there are always like these negative words. Right. And it's just so interesting because it's our profession yet. They say I don't know how to sell. I don't like to sell, and I'm not going to sell. And all I have to do is say, tell you what, think back to your first date. Right. And right there, it's like all, especially the guys, because they were selling, they were all my gosh, whether they were trying to pretend to be a mama's boy or to pretend the tough guy or whatever it was that you were trying to sell, you are selling your brains out.

Yeah. You picked a personal brand, and you went with it.

Exactly. And because you thought that your audience really liked that, and then you come to find out she did or didn't, whatever, but it's just funny.

And you get married, and you realize you changed her whole brand, and now you got to live like at times.

So, after the first impression them. So, let's say we work our way through that. And now it's the message alignment piece. So, help us understand that. I've never heard those words kind of put together. So, what does that mean to you?

To me, it means being aligned with, especially if you're still an employee of the company. If you're an entrepreneur, then you need to come up with your messaging. You need to have a really clear value proposition statement. It needs to engage like the community and not just all about you and what you do, but really getting them to start that conversation with you. Right. So have a good value proposition. If you are currently working in a company, ask the marketing department, Hey, I want to read all of our marketing materials so that you can really build your personal brand story in alignment with your company and my partner, Terry, she has been, I mean, she was just left a hundred million dollars exit from, she was on the leadership team, and she put people through message certification. And it was really awful. Like one time, I think that she had to fail a person who was pretty high up in the company because they were not in message certification. They did not match the alignment. They didn't get out the statements about the company, and you can make it your own. But you had to say these particular pieces of the message that they felt really hit their clients' hearts and minds. So, you need to know what will hit the hearts and minds. And did you nail it in your own authentic way?

And I think so. That's really interesting because you're trying to, I mean, and you want to create that authenticity that you mentioned, but, like the company words, are these who are trying to make that your message, but not dilute the message. So that's kind of tricky. I would think, in some ways, that's true.

And it takes some time, and it takes practice. It takes writing it out and then practicing it a number of times so that you can get it out clearly. And as long as you know those and have them in your back pocket, it's not going to be like you say it every time, and you do a robotically. Cause that's not what we want. And that's not you don't want that, but it is like, okay, I'm comfortable with it. Like I give an example. My father was a grocery store clerk and manager. Now, if at a barbecue, somebody said, what do you do? He could be like, I'm a grocery store clerk. Or he could say, I have the most wonderful job because I get to see your family grow up. I will probably see them as babies. I'll see them graduate from college, and they'll get married, and I will know that I nourished them. Wow. That's cool. Right. Like, and I've changed the story now, I've changed the message to be about you and not about me but is about you and how we can connect together. So, it takes time to write that.

It's awesome. And you talk about storytelling and how important it is in your branding and personal branding. When I think of storytelling, I just think of like a book that I open, and I just go through like, almost like a third grade, a second-grade book where it's just kind of like this little story. Right. And I, and I, I'm trying to incorporate that personally into my selling, into my communication. And I just like, sometimes I struggle with it. So are there simple things that you share with your, with your groups as to how to, what to work on, or what the thing, or is it broader than that? For us,

It's fairly broad. So, we have our charismatic collapsible copied because you need to know like, okay, what is my audience always the first question, how much time do I have? Am I on a 20-minute call? Is this going to be a two-minute media interview? How can I say the story in this amount, this amount, and then this amount, right? Like, so we have to, and that's where the journalism comes in terrifically because it really makes sure that I don't allow you to bury the lead. A lot of people don't tell their story. Well, because the most important thing goes way too far in the back. If somebody asks the question and you're no longer like you've only got so long to get that message out there. Know your story and then realize what story resonates with your audience.

Then you can see that from like them smiling or them. Like, if they're not getting it, you can tell when they're not getting it. So, fashion, those stories that really work and a good example of a client who improved the people, reading her newsletter, she's a manager. So, 30 people were reading our newsletter, fine, whatever. She started adding these funny stories about dating and different stuff. At the bottom of her newsletter, she told me this great story about the dating doppelganger. She got onto an online dating site, and she, the online service, sent up a picture of a guy to go out with that looked like her son. And she took a screenshot and put it in. She's like dating a doppelganger. And I would never do. And it was just really funny. She had, like, in a couple of weeks, people realizing she's entertaining them with a quick story at the bottom of that newsletter, she's gone to having 500 people in the company now reading her little newsletter. That's awesome. So, those little nuggets, don't let those go by. And in one part of our storytelling workshop is recognizing what a story is? Like something very small, people just need to realize that it can be funny. If I write that well, if I put that together, well, that can be good.

Sure. And I think so. I want to ask you a question that kind of is kind of interesting. And I want to get your feedback on, because in DISC, in the personality there are people that enjoy their people. People will call them. And then there are people who are fact people who absolutely love to hang out with people. They love the stories. They love that there's emotion. They use their hands a lot. I mean that's me. And the hardest person for me to sell to Katrina is the engineer. I'm going to call where you, like, you can't get them to smile for anything. You can't get that shell to break. They'll never tell you about their personal life. They'll never cross that line from personal to business and vice versa. I mean, that's hard for me. That's my hardest. That's like my kryptonite. And it's like, I, I sometimes I'm like, man, what am I doing here? I mean, what are you, do you have any advice for people that are in that spot or forget them that tell me, because I struggle with that specific thing, trying to get them to talk about the personal side when they truly don't want to know,

You may not get them to. You have like two options, you realize who they are and their profiling and their personality profile. And if it's an engineer type, they're like facts, like get right to what it means for me. So, we have this formula, and it's the must-have formula. And H is the hook a, is audience benefit V is visual. And he is, you've got to be engaging with the most important thing is that audience benefit. So, if you're talking to somebody like that, you're like, Hey, I don't want to take too much of your time. I know it's very valuable to you. I want to hear these three questions I have for you send it to them in advance. Sometimes people like that might want to write back more than talk to you.

So, they're more comfortable with writing. So, you give them different mediums to get back to you on, and then just, you're not going to maybe make that personal thing. And I get you. Cause I feel you. It's my kryptonite too. We were just on a call with someone who's prepping us. We're about to create a video platform, and this investor or the potential person listening as an investor just ripped me a new one because of me trying to create a new, like a commute. Like I have a relationship at the beginning, and she's like, okay, I don't care about that. I don't care about this. This was stupid. And I was like, okay, all right. But you just have to realize there are different people in the world. Right. And you're going to learn from all of them. So, if you have that empathy, even for yourself, and just go, okay, I will learn from this experience because now when I get on another call with somebody like that person, I'll know what they want. So, I've just gained a ton of insight into a whole new audience.

That's awesome. I think about it from a chameleon perspective, I may wake up red, and that's who I am. And then if I run into somebody that's blue, I need to be blue. And in our communication, we're so used to making them acclimate to our way. And it's really hard in sales because if there's somebody's non-emotional and you're trying to get them to go emotional, and it's over. I mean, there's, you're not great that, so then you, rather than expect them to go emotional, you as the sales professional need to go non-emotional, and that's got a mirror, that's the hardest thing for me to like, not smile or to try and stick the facts or it's just like, man and, and, and I guess what I'm trying to get to be how do you stay authentic?

For people who live in Milwaukee, when I took over for Tom Hooper, who was the Ron burgundy of context six, and he was the investigative reporter, consumer reporter. And I took over for him, and I was tired of people like a well little lady and this and that. And I just felt like I wasn't being taken seriously. So, I kind of went into overdrive and yelled at this plumber, and I really got it. Like I went outside of my personal brand. I tried to be a little bit more like Tom Hooper. I wanted the respect that he was given. So, I went into his shoes. Well, I said some things I shouldn't have said. And I went up to my boss, and the plumber's union was saying they were going to strike the station. It was a mess. But the good thing was authentic to my brand. I told the truth. I told my boss how frustrated I was and exactly what I said. And it went away. They never struck; it was fine. But I learned something valuable that day is I'm going to have to earn this respect. It's not going to come from me acting like somebody else. Right.

And I think that's that probably when you think of authenticity is be yourself. Some people don't know who they are. And I think that's why to invest a lot of time and in DISK and then the emotional intelligence work. Because if you don't know who you are, it's really hard to move and maneuver because you don't know where home basis, so to speak, you don't understand yourself very well. And so, the self-awareness, I spent a lot of time with people and even salespeople they just, if they were told how to sell and they could just back in the day way before you were born, they used to do these like little charts at, at the table of whatever you are selling. It was like a flip chart, and it was the same message every single day. And I was just when I saw that in sales, I thought, where is the authenticity? Where's the creativity. And now it's great that people are finally starting to create it in different ways, but in your sales, w with the work that you do with your salespeople, I got to believe that they're craving that. Even though they don't.

Yes, they are. And they're there, and it's opening up their eyes to a way of telling their stories differently with a bigger punch, right? Because people don't realize that TV news anchors, our job was to write the commercials, to get you to come back after the commercial, the T's, it gets you to come back. And so really helping them establish the story that hooks right at the top, get people involved, create that conversation that really does help people, and knowing that they can be their authentic self is super big. Now, back on your point about they don't know who they are. So, if you're one of those people right now who don't know who you are, think about who you want to be, right? Like, write down some of the words of things that you want to be known for. Like, I want it to be trustworthy.

I wanted to see, Oh, that's Katrina story. That's true. Katrina is trustworthy. Like, I believe what she's saying because she's done her homework. Right? So, start writing down some of those keywords. If that's integrity, honesty we have like a hundred value words that we send out to clients to say, circle them, write mine. Some of mine are like courage and confidence. And so, start building that personal brand and finding out who you are by who you want to be. And don't let other people define you. Right. You have to define yourself. You will show up bigger in this world. If you decide, I'm going to take this on. Wow.

The first word that came into my mind was a cowboy. We were talking about it before we were talking about before we started. And it's like, man, and I don't know what there is about God, about me. Maybe I don't even want to talk to the rest of the world. I'm just going to talk about me. But it's like, and we were watching that whatever Wyatt Earp stuff. And it was like, man, that looks so cool. I would just for a day, and I'd love to do that. So, I think I bring it up because I don't want people to put have any boundaries to their words.

Right. Go big because the world's going to shrink you down anyway. Right? Nope. You'll be chiseled away. I always say it's like, I'm a smooth stone because water is just gone over me for years. But I think that like to go big, allow yourself to try to dream as big as you possibly can, and you'll come into your own. You'll find it. You just have to know what your gifts are and be okay in saying them out loud. I think a lot of us, especially women, are taught. Don't toot your own horn. Stay humble. You can still be humble and still be confident. There's a line between arrogance and confidence. Right. And we know when you get to be arrogant, you're no longer caring about other people, right. So that confidence can really help other people if you're willing to tap into it. Yeah,

Absolutely. And when you, so there are about 45 or 50 pages in the disc assessment, and one of the pages is your strengths. And then one of the things is your areas for improvement. And I tell you what, going around in a room in a team and asking people to point out their weakness versus point their strengths, they are so easy to point out their weakness. They do not want to look at that list of strengths because they would all want to be considered egotistical. They don't want to be considered whatever that is. And that's just sad because this, the strength and the weakness, I have the same amount of space in your life. So why do you, why not give them equally? We're so used to giving that weakness so much more power than we really need to. So,

And think of how much we're losing as a society for people not being able to tap into their strengths in a good, right. Like, and we're saying, we're trying to create genuinely good people. Right. and if you could just bring us society up to go, all right, I'm playing at my highest level, and it's okay. And everybody's okay with it, and look at us all rowing together.

Exactly. Wouldn't that be nice? And that's the world that we really want to create. Yeah, absolutely. So, the last one is we come in for starting to come in for a landing. You talked about the delivery part. So that's the mechanics. I'm assuming that's where most people probably spend in their minds. That's where we're going to spend most of our time. But that's probably the least amount I would guess out of everything or how much.

Your delivery can make a big difference if you think about your tonality, voice, and inflections. I always like to joke around like a think of Martin Luther King giving the, and I have a dream speech. And then now think of Mike Tyson giving it. Yeah.

Yeah. So, delivery isn't Mike, if you're listening to no disrespect. Okay. We love it.

Actually, Mike Tyson has done a lot of work with a speech coach, and his Netflix documentary is amazing. His voice sounds totally different. Cool. Yeah. He's, he's done some personal growth, right. First of all, work well. So, a lot of it too. The biggest problem is filler words like, well, you look unsure; you don't look as trustworthy. So, we talk about getting those filler words out of your speech, and on our platform, we're videotaping you so that you get to see in your answers. Wow. I had five filler words a minute. That's pretty high. Although that is the American average, that is slowly good. Speaker gets down to two filler words a minute.

Yeah. That is so brutal. Thinking back to my early sales days, I was at a manufacturer, and they had a three-day sales training. And normally, it was always about the product. While the last day, they videotaped our presentation, and it was just the most painful thing. People will not participate in role-playing. I tell people we're going to do role-playing. They say I'm sick that day. I don't care what day it is. Right. But now I've changed it to where we're going to practice. And for whatever reason, practice versus role-playing is way better. So, but yeah, that is, so that's so crucial, crucial,

Right? And we're videotaping them over the year so they can see their improvement. And they're getting at-bats because we don't think that this is not something where you go to a workshop, and you get it. This is a golf game. There are nuances of the approach for different holes, different audiences, all of that. And we want to put them through that and videotape their success in getting better. And eventually, there'll be getting the badges. And I would love for it to become a video competition between salespeople nationwide. I can nail this, right. And there's AI that's coming out that can read your facial expressions and rate your confidence. It can read your filler words. It can read how much clarity you had in your messaging. So, we're going off into a brave new world, and I'm just really excited to bring bringing charisma into that.

Excellent. So, I want one thing, and then two things. I'm going to let you go if that's okay. So, I'm putting myself completely out there. So, tell me in this last part of what we've been talking about, tell me how what, what's something I could work on. What's something that you see that you're picking up that I could definitely work on because my next book is called what blind spots, because I'm working on that now because I know that we all have blind spots, and I'm thinking to myself, dang, I'm doing a pretty darn good job right here. I've got to toot my own horn a little bit. And if, if you're there, that's great. I just need to learn alongside that. So please, what was, what's one or two things that you could help me with just as a way of making myself vulnerable and allowing the listeners to see how this actually works.

You are very vulnerable. Where do we call it? Protein, rich feedback. We don't do any sugar sugarcoating. And I got to tell you when I first when you were first messaging me, it was your hair. And I was like, now that I know you want to be part cowboy, I can see you with the cowboy hat. But talk to me about that. That's obviously part of your personal brand. Why do you want your hair to be a little longer than most?

As I can? It's so weird because I get people on this show, Katrina, they're so jealous. And I'm not trying to be better than them, but I can still do this. I'm 55, 56, whatever, and I can still do this. And so, I mean it, and part of it is like I'm reliving my high school years too. So, there are those two pieces that probably some, we have a twisted mix, some up, if any people are listening that are like, don't commit me to anything. Okay. Because I'm normal. I just liked long hair on guys.

No, that's fine. And I have to speak for the audience because I'm sure some people have, have you ever been asked about that before? All the time. Okay. All right. So good. Well, then people are asking you, but it's a conversation starter. So, if you're not going to cut your hair, you can definitely have a conversation about it. So that's awesome. And then like, as far as your studio and stuff, there's a little bit about being able to see in the back there. And I want to ask you, like, do you usually use that fitness equipment, or is the laundry you just put shirts and pants on it?

Well, it is used, it is definitely used.

If you brought it more into the center of the room and you had that growing on purpose just right over your shoulder and made fewer things. However, the audience, especially for these longer interviews, probably enjoy trying to look around. Sure. You want to make sure that they're looking at you and listening.

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